BMW 4-Series Forums banner
1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm having big issues with my 2014 BMW 420D Convertible and my local dealers, Ocean Falmouth. My rear drivers side window wouldn't go down. Before calling the dealer I quickly googled and was horrified to see video after video of similar 4 series convertibles ..... all with gallons of water collecting within the rear panel and destroying window regulators and amps. Turns out the cause of the problem is due to a bad design where the drainage plug underneath the rear panel is blocked off by the undertray and side skirt - pinned up against it with no holes to allow any water to pass out unobstructed.
It seems the undertray etc is the same one used for the coupe which had fixed, sealed rear windows where very little, if any, water can enter the panel. However the convertible has motorised windows and as such, like any car with opening windows, some water will always find a way inside the door regardless of the condition of the seals. This would be fine for the convertible if the undertray was changed by design to allow this dirty water to freely flow out.... but it isn't.... so water is soon trapped as soon as the smallest amount of dirty water gathers inside the panel.
BMW know all about this. They even have a service bulletin that describes the problem and the easy fix.... drilling a hole too allow the water out of the drain plug. See service bulletin B513116 .
To check, I carefully unattached the undertray, and whilst videoing I pulled out my drain plug..... And gallons of rusty coloured water flowed out.
The dealership have now taken a look for £125 too diagnose the issue even though we knew the cause, plus charged another large sum as they couldn't lower the roof - (although the roof lowered OK for me just before I took it in as I cleaned and lubricated the seals with the BMW stuff as I've always done) and they have agreed the window regulator has totally rusted out. Who knows what condition the inside of the panel is in.
I bought the car from Ocean BMW, and have bought extended warranty every year since the main warranty ran out. The car has been serviced and maintained by Ocean BMW since new. I'm told the extended warranty won't cover it as the window regulator is damaged by water. And BMW HQ have refused to help out despite being told that I'm aware the water damage was caused by the drain blocked by the bad design of the undertray. The dealer say they are only a franchise and can do no more.
Needless to say, I'm not happy.
I would like to hear from anyone who has had similar issues with the blocked drain.. and whether it was fixed under warranty, extended warranty, BMW goodwill.... or, like they're telling me, passed on as tough luck on the customer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Hi. I am experiencing exactly the same problem with my M440i Sport Convertible. I experienced the water sloshing noise in October. The car had only just had a full service a couple of weeks beforehand. The dealership from whom I bought the car new and have serviced it throughout my ownership, have had my car since 3rd November 2021 and say the part is still on order and hopefully will come in next month. They have been saying the same thing for weeks. I have been without my car for almost 4 months. I have a video from the service department showing just how much water they drained from my car. The amp has blown and all functions including satnav, radio and phone connection were blown. I took out an extended warranty but they deny it's a warranty issue. I have told them that even if it's not a contractual issue (which I don't accept) there's a negligence claim. BMW have known about this problem for years and have not taken steps to issue a warning or recall or have made it a basic service check. Had they done so it's a 10 minute job to drain the water before any further damage was caused. I have a copy of a Technical Service memo dated August 2016 ref: SI B51 33 16. This is slightly different from the bulletin number you mention but perhaps is the same? They tell me at Barons they're not aware of the issue but one of their staff told me confidentially there have been literally dozens of similar complaints. BMW UK have been aggressively unhelpful. I intended to sell the car last Autumn and buy an electric car - (it was going to be a BMW but no longer). The value of my car according to Motorway and We'll Buy Any Car has decreased from £25,541 in October to £21,392 last week. It will drop further when the new numberplate comes out.The whole situation is totally unacceptable but I'm waiting to get my car back before I decide what further action to take. I certainly won't be letting the matter rest. By weird coincidence I have a new next door neighbour with the same model. He started experiencing the water sloshing around Christmas, has had similar arguments with the branch of the same dealership he deals with and also BMW UK but tells me the car has now been fixed. I'm waiting to see whether they've charged him. Are you in contact with anyone else? The more the better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
ALSL BMW, that's absolutely shocking. I can't believe you're left without your car this long and BMW UKs response to this. I have been posting on several BMW Forum sites and also Facebook posts where many, many people have shared their stories and videos.
The water rusted out my window regulator so the rear window wouldn't go down. Because the window wouldn't go down the roof wouldn't go down either. The dealers had to wind the roof back manually to get in to the rear panel and and access the regulator which was rusted out completely. Like you, I believe that BMW was negligent and is totally responsible for the damage... and they should fix the damage caused by a design problem they ignored. Also, if it came to being a warranty issue, I also did not agree with the dealer that this was not covered by extended warranty. They tried telling me that the water damage was caused by the bodywork and not the regulator so it wasn't covered. I argued there was no failure of the bodywork/trim.... Nothing was broken that caused this. Everything was just as it was designed.... It just happens that the way BMW designed it means the panels fill with water.
Because I was still arguing that I felt BMW was responsible they actually wound the roof back up manually again.... with nothing fixed at all!!
However, the following day the dealer told me that there had been a change of heart. Because I had been a loyal customer since purchase they had agreed to fix the car under the extended warranty. Now, this sounded weird, because his could brand loyalty be taken into account for a warranty claim??
Still, paying £250 excess was still better than the massive total bill now accrued... so my car was fixed with me paying the £250 despite me still saying that BMW ought to have taken full responsibility rather than warranty. Before I left the dealer, I questioned how it was put through as a warranty claim as the BMW extended warranty is actually provided by a third party... Allianz. Only then did the dealer tell me that it was actually BMW UK that paid the majority with me paying £250 contribution (which would have been my excess if it had been a warranty claim).... so they'd lied to me.
I have sent a letter of complaint to BMW UK and a usb stick with the video pouring out off my car. We need to amass names of all the people who have been affected by this issue. I've recently become aware that there was a very similar issue with Series 5 cars and in the USA affected customers got together to take BMW to court. BMW came to a settlement for all those people whose cars suffered damage. BMW agrees to settle vehicle water damage suit for up to $478 million
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Ps.. would love to know if your neighbour has his fixed under BMW good will or warranty too. Perhaps he would also be willing to support any action against BMW too?
If we can put everything together the findings could be taken to the press, the motor ombudsman or raise a legal case as a group.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
My neighbour has got his car back but I don't want to get him involved at this stage. He has emailed me his invoice and I have removed his personal details- see photo. Originally they were charging him but after he spoke to me he negotiated them down after a battle.I have spent time today reading the Extended Warranty booklet- what it covers and what it doesn't. in short, the only exclusion is "fair wear and tear" which this problem clearly isn't. BMW and their dealerships are trying to avoid responsibility and liability but clearly are digging a large whole for themselves. As I said before I'm waiting to get my car back in good working condition but I will be submitting a claim for damages, loss of amenity and reduction in value. I have sufficient evidence to substantiate all these heads of claim including the fact that I was selling it in October before I had to book it in. Once I have my car back I will quantify my claim and will be sending the dealership, BMW UK and BMW AG a Pre-Action protocol letter.

As you say the contractual claim under the warranty appears to be with a third party but it's a clear case of negligence which stands alone from a claim in contract - BMW have a duty of care to their customers, they are in breach of that duty having known of this issue for years and are therefore liable for consequential loss. I will be contacting a friend of mine who is a lawyer based in Dussledorf and who specialises in claims against BMW, Audi and MB to see if he can help. I am happy to go it alone or join a class action. Yes, of course we can go to the media but my principal concern is to get my car back (so I can sell it) and receive compensation. Once you run off to the media you can lose control of the matter so I'm playing it one stage at a time.

I am not sure whether our exchanges can be read by the general public (including BMW) so am reluctant to give anyone too much notice in advance of my plans. It seems that between us we have compiled substantial amount of information.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yes, sounds like you have a plan and I'm certainly happy to support. You're right that have discovered many contacts with the same problem who I could ask if they would be happy to help. By the way, you are correct with your Service Bulletin number... that is the same one, but unfortunately I made a typo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Hi Guys, I have a 2014 420D convertible. The rear quarterlight window behind drivers seat has stopped working. It is stuck in the closed position (up). Therefore won't allow roof to be lowered. I have had the common problem of the water being trapped in this panel. I fixed it around 8 months ago. I'm pretty sure the motor (driver) has sized as a result of this. I have stripped out the panels etc to gain access to the window. I now realise i can't remove the window without getting it to retract. As the motor has sized this seems like an impossible task. Does anyone know if the window or roof can be lowered manually?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Hi Guys, I have a 2014 420D convertible. The rear quarterlight window behind drivers seat has stopped working. It is stuck in the closed position (up). Therefore won't allow roof to be lowered. I have had the common problem of the water being trapped in this panel. I fixed it around 8 months ago. I'm pretty sure the motor (driver) has sized as a result of this. I have stripped out the panels etc to gain access to the window. I now realise i can't remove the window without getting it to retract. As the motor has sized this seems like an impossible task. Does anyone know if the window or roof can be lowered manually?
I can't help with this. I have no idea. Sorry.

Further to my post in February my car has now been repaired after over 5 months. It was returned this week in a filthy condition and obviously all the settings (seats, music, sat nav history) have been lost. Bottom line is that I gave up the courtesy car at Christmas since I was able to use my daughter's car who is working away. They have not charged me anything for the part or labour in what they say is a "goodwill gesture" and also, after negotiation, as a quid pro quo for giving up the courtesy car but I have unnecessarily paid over 5 months in insurance, tracker, road tax etc. On top of this I have suffered the loss of amenity but the biggest loss is the value of the car. I was planning to sell it last October and obtained online quotes the higher of which (Motorway) was £24,462. Today that's down to £20,992- a loss of £3,470. It's a minimum of a £5,000 claim for negligence . BMW have known of this issue for some time and have failed to address it.Their excuse is Brexit and backorder of the relevant part which they say is out of their control. Had they carried out a 10 minute check in October when the car was serviced, these problems would have been avoided. I have been told by someone working at the BMW retailer (no longer there) that there have been dozens of similar complaints to her knowledge. Before I go to the next step of formalising this claim I would welcome any views from others in a similar position.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
I have a a 2017 420d convertible and had the same water sloshing issue that I was able to resolve myself to release the water, but I have now got a 'no warning tones' error come up and I have no radio/music/sounds at all in the vehicle which I fear my be due to water damage of the amp. Have anyone had any success with BMW repairing resolving their issues?
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
Top